Thread: Gary Devore is missing
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:26:01 -0400 (EDT)

This chart would not be as valid as an actual horay chart for the
time his disappearance was noted or enquired about. We cannot rely on the
time, seeing as how at this point, nobody was actually noting it as anything
important.
Anyway, I am always suspicious of Saturn in the 7th. I find in a
horay chart that it is often an indication of the 1st house person not being
truthfulness with the 7th house person, and that is the reason for it's
general rule against judgement. With Mercury square the Asc./Dsc. and
especially in Cancer the real story isn't quite out there.
With Venus, Mars and Pluto all in good aspect and on the side ruling
the Asc, it tends to indicate that someone is playing games with this.
As to what that means specifically is there is probably some
bullshit going on here. At least, the indications are that something is
definitely not as represented.


At 01:52 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
>gary devore last spoken to - event
>

>     28 Jun 1997
>     1.00 P.M. (7)
>     117.01 WEST
>     34.54 NORTH
>     06H  39M  44S
>     Regiomontanus
>                 13 LEO             09 CAN             04 GEM
>                     *        ME10Can *                *
>                              PF25Can *
>                        *     VE00Leo * SU07Can     *
>     12 VIR                           *                            04 TAU
>          *                *          *          *                *
>              *                       *                       *
>        NN23Vir   *           *       *       *           *
>        MA04Lib       *               *               *
>                          *      * ** * ** *      *
>                              *               *              MO24Ari
>                             *                 *             SA19Ari
>     08 LIB ******************                 ******************* 08 ARI
>                             *                 *
>                              *               *
>                          *      * ** * ** *      *
>                      *               *               *
>                  *           *       *       *           *  SN23Pis
>              *                       *                       *
>          *                *          *          *                *
>     04 SCO                           *                            12 PIS
>                        *             *             *
>               PL03Sag                * UR07Aqu        JU21Aqu
>                     *                * NE29Cpr        *
>                 04 SAG             09 CPR             13 AQU

>Gary Devore, a Los Angeles screenwriter called his wife from Barstow
>California this past Saturday at 1:00p.m., he was returning from the New
>Mexico home of actress Marcia Mason, having collaborated with her on a
>script. He said he would be home shortly. He has not been heard from since.
>Any one want to guess as to where he might be?
>
>
>
>
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Gary Devore is missing
From: Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <dstar@mcn.org> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:52:49 -0700

gary devore last spoken to - event

     28 Jun 1997
     1.00 P.M. (7)
     117.01 WEST
     34.54 NORTH
     06H  39M  44S
     Regiomontanus
                 13 LEO             09 CAN             04 GEM
                     *        ME10Can *                *
                              PF25Can *
                        *     VE00Leo * SU07Can     *
     12 VIR                           *                            04 TAU
          *                *          *          *                *
              *                       *                       *
        NN23Vir   *           *       *       *           *
        MA04Lib       *               *               *
                          *      * ** * ** *      *
                              *               *              MO24Ari
                             *                 *             SA19Ari
     08 LIB ******************                 ******************* 08 ARI
                             *                 *
                              *               *
                          *      * ** * ** *      *
                      *               *               *
                  *           *       *       *           *  SN23Pis
              *                       *                       *
          *                *          *          *                *
     04 SCO                           *                            12 PIS
                        *             *             *
               PL03Sag                * UR07Aqu        JU21Aqu
                     *                * NE29Cpr        *
                 04 SAG             09 CPR             13 AQU

Gary Devore, a Los Angeles screenwriter called his wife from Barstow
California this past Saturday at 1:00p.m., he was returning from the New
Mexico home of actress Marcia Mason, having collaborated with her on a
script. He said he would be home shortly. He has not been heard from since.
Any one want to guess as to where he might be?



Thread: Subscribe
From: Tom Nicholson <tpotts@metronet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:07:45 +0100




Thread: Suscribe as subject
From: DENIS LABOURE <Laboure@wanadoo.fr> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:22:56 +0200

suscribe as subject.
Denis Labouré.


Thread: Subscribe
From: abraham <abraham@ms1.hinet.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:09:38 +0800

subscribe


Thread: Updated Info on NCGR Conference
From: "J. Lee Lehman" <leephd@ix19.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:31:08 +0000

The NCGR Conference on classical techniques has been changed to the
weekend of November 15th, at the Cape Coder in Hyannis, MA. I will be
shifting my Pre-medical Intensive in Boston to Monday November
17th as a result.

The hotel is only a mile from the airport in Hyannis and there is a
free shuttle to and from that airport provided by the hotel. Any one
coming from Logan Airport in Boston should know that there is a bus
to Hyannis for $15.00.

There will be a welcoming reception on the evening of Nov 14,1997,
classes all day the 15th and 16th, with a dinner dance on the 15th.

The faculty is Joseph Crane, Rob Hand, Chis Lafond, Lee Lehman, and
Bob Zoller.

Early registration up till Sept 1, 1997: $125.00 for members and
$160.00 for non members

After Sept 1, 1997: $150.00 for members and $185.00 non members

At the door: $175.00 members, $210.00 non member.

This includes opening reception full conference and dinner dance.

For further info, contact: AMNimark@aol.com.
---
J. Lee Lehman, Ph.D. (http://www.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html)
P.O. Box 501107, Malabar FL 32950, USA (leephd@ix.netcom.com)
Phone (407) 728-2277 Fax (407) 728-2244
Horary & Electional Astrology Consultations & Instruction


Thread: Birth Data: Lenny Bruce
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:56:05 -0400 (EDT)

At 08:16 AM 6/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:24:41 -0400 (EDT), John Reder <jreder@tiac.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have the birth data on Lenny Bruce?
>
>Oct 13, 1925
>11:24 AM EST
>Mineola, NY
>73W38 40N45
>
>>From Rodden's AstroData II, given as AA data
>
>Also noted there, died of heroin overdose, August 3, 1966, no place
>given.
>
>David
>--
>David Ockrassa
>dockrasa@accessone.com
>
>
He died in LA. The story on that was that there was some bad heroin
going around. The cops got the guy that was selling it and told him that if
he didn't cough up the names of the people he sold it to and one of them
died, he would be up for murder. So the guy gave the names, one of which
was Lenny.
At the time the DA had been trying to get Lenny on an obscenity rap.
Every time he got a conviction, it got overturned.
The cops told the DA about the list of names and that they were
going to find the people and tell them not to use the smack and the DA told
them not to tell Lenny.
There are photos out there of Lenny, dead on the toilet seat from
the OD and the cops holding up his head and having their picture taken like
he was some trophy.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Birth Data: Lenny Bruce
From: AstroMaggi@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:04:42 -0400 (EDT)

Lenny Bruce DOB
October 13, 1925
11:24 AM EST
Mineola NY

from American Book of Charts, Lois Rodden, 1980 "A" data

Maggie


Thread: Birth Data: Lenny Bruce
From: TonyLouis@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:48:08 -0400 (EDT)

There is a database of birth data at:

http://205.186.189.2/ms/ms_astro_search.html

where Lenny Bruce is given as:

Bruce, LennyDate: 1925 10 13
Time: 11:24:00 AM EST
Place: Mineola, NY (Long:073W38'00, Lat:40N45'00)


Thread: Subject
From: Annmar2428@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:56:27 -0400 (EDT)

annmar2428@aol.com


Thread: Birth Data: Lenny Bruce
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:24:41 -0400 (EDT)

Does anyone have the birth data on Lenny Bruce?
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: The Astrologer's Apprentice
From: John Frawley <j@apprentice.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:28:41 -0700

Dear All,

This is to announce the existence of The Astrologer's Apprentice - a
bimonthly magazine of traditional astrology, quite unlike any other. Fourth
Issue now available.

Rigorous astrology, fine writing, strong views well argued and, above all,
sheer entertainment: this is astrology with a passion, well presented and
fully illustrated.

Visit our website on http://www.apprentice.demon.co.uk for extracts and
ordering details, or e-mail j@apprentice.demon.co.uk to order a copy by
credit card. 3 UK pounds per copy inside the European Community; 4 pounds
elsewhere.

Best regards, John Frawley




Thread: Subscribe
From: AstroMaggi@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:07:03 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

subscribe


Thread: Subscribe
From: Regdab@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:31:51 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

send


Thread: William Hague data and other information:
From: "Hugh McNeill" <hcm@moose.co.uk> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:11:33 +0000

Hi David,

> Just out of curiousity I ran my interpretation programme for a birth
> time of 6.00am for William Hague to get some idea of what is likely for
> both him and the country, especially as having looked at Tony Blair's
> progressed chart I see him being leader for at least 10 years, and
> probably longer.
(etc.)

The birth time of 6am BST for William Hague is approximate, and
there is a real possibility that he might have a different ASC;
(Aquarius before 06:03:36 BST, and Pisces after that time). How will
this affect your interpretation?

All the best,
Hugh McNeill
hcm@moose.co.uk


Thread: Clarke -v- Hague for tory leadership
From: "Hugh McNeill" <hcm@moose.co.uk> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:54:04 +0000

Hi Pat,

> Many thanks for the info. on astrocartography. I am permanently poor,
> though (although I did manage to identify the winner of the Royal Ascot Gold
> cup and runner up via a horary question today) so don't know when I will be
> able to afford to buy it.

There is a small AstroCartography facility in Astrolog (Version
5.30), which might give you A*C*G capability in the interim. Astrolog
is Freeware, and I get it from:
http://rpkalf2.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/%7Eferber/astrolog/
(This being a Web Site, you'll need just your Web Browser to access
it).

All the best,
Hugh
+
Hugh McNeill
hcm@moose.co.uk


Thread: William Hague data and other information:
From: david ryan <kdm@kdmdr.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:28:57 +0100

In message <1345234575-4829256@moose.co.uk>, Hugh McNeill
<hcm@mail.moose.co.uk> writes
>Hi David,
>
>> Just out of curiousity I ran my interpretation programme for a birth
>> time of 6.00am for William Hague to get some idea of what is likely for
>> both him and the country, especially as having looked at Tony Blair's
>> progressed chart I see him being leader for at least 10 years, and
>> probably longer.
>(etc.)
>
>The birth time of 6am BST for William Hague is approximate, and
>there is a real possibility that he might have a different ASC;
>(Aquarius before 06:03:36 BST, and Pisces after that time). How will
>this affect your interpretation?
>
>All the best,
>Hugh McNeill
>hcm@moose.co.uk


Hi Hugh

It is an interesting point, I know you did a rectification pointing to
6.21, the sensitivity is there from the sun moon Aries-Cancer
combination anyway, the fascination with politics from an early age
seems a very Aquarian Rising Sign feature, I don't see much Piscean
receptivity in either the manner or the looks.

The real question is he another John Major figure who actually has few
beliefs and is an expert trimmer to the prevailing wind, my guess is
that yes, he is.

Regards


David Ryan |Phone 011-44-181 874 8218 (from US)
Kozmik Horoscopes | Fax 011-44-181-875 1025
134 Elsenham Street |International: code+44-181-874-8218
London SW18 5NP |email:kdm@kdmdr.demon.co.uk
UK |http://www.demon.co.uk/kdm/hscope.html


Thread: Data on teams
From: Hardaspect@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:22:49 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 97-06-20 19:39:46 EDT, you write:

<< Basil
Did you want this to go through the mailing list? There is no one
here named Cynthia.
Carol

> From: Hardaspect@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:24:30 -0400 (EDT)
> To: cwiggers@halcyon.com
> Subject: Re: data on teams

> Thank you Cynthia
>
> Basil
> >>

Cynthia,
Thanks. I had a Carol on my mind. My intention was to submit a query to the
list asking if anyone had data on professional basketball and football teams.
By the way, I spoke with Lee via email and she wasn't able to help with this
request. If you know anyone who can, please send them my way. Sports
Astrology is my most recent passion.

Basil


Thread: Data
From: Hardaspect@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:56:47 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

Does anyone have data on professional basketball and football teams?

Basil Fearrington


Thread: William Hague data and other information:
From: david ryan <kdm@kdmdr.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:52:10 +0100
Status: U

>
Just out of curiousity I ran my interpretation programme for a birth
time of 6.00am for William Hague to get some idea of what is likely for
both him and the country, especially as having looked at Tony Blair's
progressed chart I see him being leader for at least 10 years, and
probably longer.

William Hague can be characterised as a young fogey, there is a certain
superficial quality, not many real new ideas but plenty of surface charm
and surprisingly he is less bold than he acts, due to acute
sensitivities, he is very influenced by associates and is best viewed as
a vehicle for the real right wingers who have taken him up.

This is not a good omen for someone who has to find new ideas to bring
his party back from the extremes and escape from his debt to the cabal
he represents.

My conclusion: he is out of phase with his times and a symptom of a
party that has lost contact with the country.

There is a distinct possibility the Liberal Democrats increasinly revive
as the real opposition.


David Ryan |Phone 011-44-181 874 8218 (from US)
Kozmik Horoscopes | Fax 011-44-181-875 1025
134 Elsenham Street |International: code+44-181-874-8218
London SW18 5NP |email:kdm@kdmdr.demon.co.uk
UK |http://www.demon.co.uk/kdm/hscope.html


Thread: William Hague data and other information:
From: "Hugh McNeill" <hcm@moose.co.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:10:03 +0000

Hi Pat,

Well, it seems a time of major upsets! First it was Tony Blair's
landslide, and now it is William Hague's convincing victory.

I just thought I'd pass on the following bits of info.:
* The announcement that William Hague had won the Tory Leadership
came at 17:17 BST at Westminster, 19 June: (Source, The Times of 20
June, which stated, "Yesterday's result was declared in Committee
Room 10 at 5:17pm ...").
* William Hague is being compared with William Pitt (the Younger),
who became the youngest Prime Minister of Britain on 19 December
1783 at the age of 24. He defeated the coalition government of
Charles James Fox and Lord North to achieve this. (Incidentally,
parallels are also being drawn between the Kenneth Clarke / John
Redwood 'coalition' and the 1783 coalition of Fox / North).
* William Pitt (the Younger) was born on 28 May 1759, and died on 23
Jan. 1806. He is the Prime Minister who first introduced Income Tax
in Britain, in 1798, to finance the wars with France.

Today's Press (The Guardian) gave Kenneth Clarke's d.o.b. as 2 July
1940, Nottingham, (but no time unfortunately).

The Guardian also printed a short resume of William Hague's career,
and I used this to rectify his chart to 06:21 BST, (which gives him
an ASC of 10PISCES19). However, I'm not certain of the time at this
point and I'd like to study his data further. In case you'd like to
do a similar check of his chart against the data, here it is:
* Natal data: 26 Mar.'61, about 6:00 BST, Rotherham.
* Mother bought him Membership of local Cons. Party, Mar.'76.
* Addressed 1977 Cons. Party Conference Blackpool, Oct.'77.
* President of Oxford Univ. Conservative Association, Dec.'80.
* Elected President of Oxford Union, Jun.'81.
* Management Consultant McKinsey & Co. 1983 - 1988.
* Political Adviser to HM Treasury, 1983.
* Contested Wentworth S.Yorks. and lost by 20,000, Jun.'87.
* Selected to replace Leon Brittan in Richmond N.Yorks, Nov.'88.
* Narrowly won at Richmond N.Yorks, Jan.'89.
* PPS to Sir Geoffery Howe, 1990 - 1993.
* Under Secretary DSS, 1993 - 1994.
* Replaced John Redwood as Welsh Secretary, becoming youngest
Cabinet Member, Jun.'95.
* Under Secretary for Wales, 1995 - 1997.
* Announced engagement to Ffion 'Jolly' Jenkins, Mar.'97.
* Elected Tory Leader, 19 Jun.97, 17:17, Westminster.

If you get Kenneth Clarke's birth time, and/or John Redwood's data,
please let me know. Thanks.

All the best,
Hugh McNeill
hcm@moose.co.uk


Thread: Clarke -v- Hague for tory leadership
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:55:29 +0100
Status: U

Hugh,

Well, I stuck my neck out and got my head chopped off - good job I'm a cat
with more than one life! I was disappointed to see Clarke lose although I'm
not a tory supporter. I have returned to my chart which led me to think he
might win and learnt from it. Ah well .... Clarke had won in the
constituencies so he is more popular with tory grass roots, as the media
says. We'll see what happens to Hague when Portillo regains a seat in the
House of Commons ...

Many thanks for the info. on astrocartography. I am permanently poor,
though (although I did manage to identify the winner of the Royal Ascot Gold
cup and runner up via a horary question today) so don't know when I will be
able to afford to buy it.

Love,

Pat.



Thread: Re[2]: football match
From: "Nicholas Grier" <n.grier@napier.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 10:06:23 gmt

Dear Jonathan,
I think your response was very wise. I too often find that unless the
horary really matters to those asking, or if it is you asking, to you
personally, you don't get a good response. There is a divinatory
element to horary work, and you ask when the question is ripe. A mere
casual inquiry doesn't work, or at least not reliably.
Regards

Nicholas Grier


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: football match
Author: "Carol A. Wiggers" <william_lilly@halcyon.com> at internet-gateway
Date: 16/06/97 19:43


>Message was resent -- Original recipients were:
To:
william_lilly@halcyon.com-------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
>To: jon@emarkt.com
>From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)
>Subject: Re: football match
>
>Dear Jon,
>
>You wrote:
>
>>there was quite an interesting programme on English tv yesterday in which
an astrologer was very successful in predicting results of football (soccer)
matches. He showed his chart and pointed out that the ascendant was for team
A and the desc for team B
>>
>>What I'd like to know is how he knew how to assign Asc to team A or team
B. Did he ask the question *Will team A win the match?*, or is there some
other way of assigning Asc & Desc in such judgements?
>>He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the result.
What sort of technique would he have used for this?
>>Thanks
>>
>>Jon
>>--
>>
>Earlier this year I prepared the "perfect horary" in order to find out who
would win a particular football match. This is not just my definition of my
astrological skill as the judgement was confirmed by an extremely competent
and experienced astrologer.
>
>You may imagine my horror as I watched the results that night, only to
discover that my prediction was wrong. Although tempted to consign two years
work on traditional astrology to the trash can I (and the astrologer to whom
I had shown this prediction and who was equally surprised) struggled to find
a meaning.
>
>In the current climate, where it is so easy to draw a chart without
engaging in the contemplative process, I think the meaning is this:
>
>"Judge not upon every light motion, or without premeditation of the
querent, nor upon slight and triviall questions, or when the querent hath
not wit to know what he would demand." Lilly - p. 298.
>
>Sorry, if this sounds a bit of a kill joy but I think we rarely appreciate
the magnitude of the knowledge we are handling (remember the last scene of
"Raiders of the Lost Ark?") and it takes an experience like the one I had to
appreciate the overall situation.
>
>Much as I love sport I will no longer tackle this sort of question. By
contrast, however, if I were asked the question by the manager of the team
or a player or someone who had a direct interest then, subject to the usual
conditions, I would consider it fit for judgement.
>
>Best Wishes,
>Jonathon
>>
>>
>





Thread: Football match
From: Hideaki Kokubu <kokubu@est.co.jp> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:31:37 +0900
Status: U

Hello

You could ask John Frawley about the matter, his e-mail address is
<j@apprentice.demon.co.uk>.

Regards,

Hideaki




sueward@easynet.co.uk wrote:
>
> Dear Jon
>
> >>> He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the
> >result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?
>
> This was John Frawley, he is connected to Olivia Barclay's course, thus we
> would expect him to use traditional techniques. However, I too am unclear as
> to how he could ascertain a precise score for the match using astrology only.
>
> I note Allen's reply to you and would be interested to know the general
> method of discovering exact scores.
>
> Call me a cynic, but I suspect that he was using a method other than
> astrological. Any other opinions?
>
> Sue
> The Traditional Horary Course
> sueward@easynet.co.uk
> http://www.horary.com


Thread: Re Football
From: Neil <neils@saschools.edu.au> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:03:58 -0700

sueward@easynet.co.uk wrote:
>
> Dear Jon
>
> >>> He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the
> >result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?
>
> This was John Frawley, he is connected to Olivia Barclay's course, thus we
> would expect him to use traditional techniques. However, I too am unclear as
> to how he could ascertain a precise score for the match using astrology only.
>
> I note Allen's reply to you and would be interested to know the general
> method of discovering exact scores.
>
> Call me a cynic, but I suspect that he was using a method other than
> astrological. Any other opinions?
> Yeah.....there are other methods..... the psychic!

However we have tried the Lehman and Brady method with our football
team, and there is no corespondence happening. Stats do not seem to work
with either rectification or contest charts. The intuition of the
astrologer, and his/her judgement of the chart seems to be the hallmark
of interpretation, along with the guidelines of ages past. Rules there
are, yet Lilly broke them often. He was the greatest astrologer, and got
it right. So why do we have to bow to the so-called Scientific model,
which says that breaking the rules constitutes ex laboratory conditions,
when we are aware that science, as it is known today, works with an
uncertainty principle.

As scientists and astrologers we can only say bah fooey to the servile
acceptance of modern astrologers who believe that everything is empirical
in our ART and science. It is not.
Neil Sills BSc BA PTMAFA DTASNZ
Felina Sills BSc MA

PS Our team is still not winning!




Thread: Re Football
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:58:02 +0100
Status: U

>sueward@easynet.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> Dear Jon
>>
>> >>> He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the
>> >result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?
>>
>> This was John Frawley, he is connected to Olivia Barclay's course, thus we
>> would expect him to use traditional techniques. However, I too am unclear as
>> to how he could ascertain a precise score for the match using astrology only.
>>
>> I note Allen's reply to you and would be interested to know the general
>> method of discovering exact scores.
>>
>> Call me a cynic, but I suspect that he was using a method other than
>> astrological. Any other opinions?
>> Yeah.....there are other methods..... the psychic!
>
> However we have tried the Lehman and Brady method with our football
>team, and there is no corespondence happening. Stats do not seem to work
>with either rectification or contest charts. The intuition of the
>astrologer, and his/her judgement of the chart seems to be the hallmark
>of interpretation, along with the guidelines of ages past. Rules there
>are, yet Lilly broke them often. He was the greatest astrologer, and got
>it right. So why do we have to bow to the so-called Scientific model,
>which says that breaking the rules constitutes ex laboratory conditions,
> when we are aware that science, as it is known today, works with an
>uncertainty principle.
>
>As scientists and astrologers we can only say bah fooey to the servile
>acceptance of modern astrologers who believe that everything is empirical
>in our ART and science. It is not.
>Neil Sills BSc BA PTMAFA DTASNZ
>Felina Sills BSc MA
>
>PS Our team is still not winning!
>
>
>
>

Develop a suitable hypothesis for testing which is relevant to astrological
studies and that should work - it has for me. You can certainly identify
"the winning side" with some reliability in contest charts but I don't knwo
about the score .... Nice to see you hear Neil O'TISOLA. May you never
experience trines in signs of short ascension.

Love,

Pat.



Thread: Football match
From: allen edwall <allen_edwall@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:52:13 -0400
Status: U

>> I note Allen's reply to you and would be interested to know the general
method of discovering exact scores.

My general method was to use Llewellyn George's techniques and find the
plus/minus scores for the two significators. Each point was then worth one
touchdown in football, one goal in hockey, etc. That is not rigorously
tested scientifically, but it did seem to have validity for me. Never
researched it to the nth degree. When I saw it basically worked, I moved on
to other things and said, "That's cool."


Allen


Thread: Classical Studies Courses: Shameless Commerce Division
From: "J. Lee Lehman" <leephd@ix14.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:40:00 +0000
Status: RO

For those on the board who have broader classical interests than
horary, the Classical Studies series that I teach has now grown to
the point that it is an entire curriculum of study! I have revamped
the format so that there are now three levels: introductory,
intermediate, and advanced, with one additional course planned for
the Fall of 1997 that falls outside the regular stream. Here is the
revamped list:

Classical Studies Courses

CS 101: Beginning: The basics of classical delineation: dignities,
temperament, and how to meaningfully discuss happiness, financial
planning, health, relationships and professional concerns over the
life of the Native. $320.

CS 102: Horary: The basics of answering questions. Among the question
types taught are relationships, legal, jobs, truth and rumors, real
estate, and lost objects. $360.

CS 201: Electional: how to pick dates to take action: with respect to
relationships, defeating an opponent, jobs, real estate, medical
procedures, setting up a corporation, journeys, and beginning an
educational program. $300.

CS 202: Mundane: the major classical Mundane techniques: major
conjunctions, eclipses, lunations, and ingresses. We then integrate
them into a modern synthesis which includes locational astrology and
charts for mundane entities such as countries. $350.

CS 301: Medical: This Course teaches how to develop a life strategy
for wellness, as well as how to interpret the course of a disease once
manifested, and what susceptibilities to discuss with the Native.
$420.

CS 302: Gaming: The purpose of this Course is to teach not only the
concepts of contest or warfare astrology, but also to teach the
research methods you will need to know in order to optimize your own
model. Students will be provided with the Super Bowl data in the
Microsoft Access database as a starting point. Course available
October 1997.

CS 050: Medical/Pro: This Course presents Medical Astrology for Health
Care Professionals with minimal astrological background. The purpose
is to teach the system of determining temperament, as well as how to
use the temperament in recommendations for such matters as diet and
exercise. Course available December 1997.

Please see my web page, or contact me if you have any questions.

---
J. Lee Lehman, Ph.D. (http://www2.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html)
P.O. Box 501107, Malabar FL 32950, USA (leephd@ix.netcom.com)
Phone (407) 728-2277 Fax (407) 728-2244
Horary & Electional Astrology Consultations & Instruction


Thread: New programs
From: allen edwall <allen_edwall@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:50:57 -0400

Hi,

You may be interested in knowing about the three new interpretation
programs
I have available for downloading from my web site.


NatalMP - Natal Midpoint & Midpoint Weighting Analysis Interpretations

Pythagorus - Numerology Forecasting & Astrology Daily Transit
Interpretations

MPInterp - Transiting Planet & Midpoint Interpretations


Visit http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/allen_edwall


and try them for yourself. All programs generate reports which you may
sell to those who are interested. Thanks.


Allen


Thread: Football match
From: sueward@easynet.co.uk Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
Status: U

Dear Jon

>>> He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the
>result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?

This was John Frawley, he is connected to Olivia Barclay's course, thus we
would expect him to use traditional techniques. However, I too am unclear as
to how he could ascertain a precise score for the match using astrology only.

I note Allen's reply to you and would be interested to know the general
method of discovering exact scores.

Call me a cynic, but I suspect that he was using a method other than
astrological. Any other opinions?

Sue
The Traditional Horary Course
sueward@easynet.co.uk
http://www.horary.com



Thread: Football match
From: "J. Lee Lehman" <leephd@ix4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:15:24 +0000

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: Miriam Laister <cosmic@dove.mtx.net.au>
Subject: Re: football match
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:22:10


> Do you cast a Horary chart or do you take the chart for the 'kick-off' or
> start of any competition? If the latter, that would take into consideration
> the problem of 'trivial' Horaries, as this would not be an answer to a
> Horary question, but the judgement of a different kind.
>

Miriam -

No horary. Games are events, not questions. Also interrogatory, but a
different type.

---
J. Lee Lehman, Ph.D. (http://www2.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html)
P.O. Box 501107, Malabar FL 32950, USA (leephd@ix.netcom.com)
Phone (407) 728-2277 Fax (407) 728-2244
Horary & Electional Astrology Consultations & Instruction


Thread: Football match
From: Miriam Laister <cosmic@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:01:06
Status: U

Dear Lee,

Do you cast a Horary chart or do you take the chart for the 'kick-off' or
start of any competition? If the latter, that would take into consideration
the problem of 'trivial' Horaries, as this would not be an answer to a
Horary question, but the judgement of a different kind.

Love from over here,
Miriam

>
>> there was quite an interesting programme on English tv yesterday in
which an astrologer was very successful in predicting results of football
(soccer) matches. He showed his chart and pointed out tha>

snip

>You'll find an article on this subject by Bernadette Brady and me in
>the current issue of the Astrological Journal, or on the Astrological
>Association's web page http://www.astrologer.com/aanet/index.html
>that spells out a method. We have treated the game chart as a variant
>of war charts.
--
"We stood at last beyond the Gold Gate. Masters of Time and Fate, and knew
the song that Sun and Stars were singing."
Miriam Laister - THE COSMIC EXPERIENCE astrology newsletter - GEMINI TAPES
astrology lectures on tape.


Thread: Football Match
From: Neil <neils@saschools.edu.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:44:39 -0700

I always assign the ascendant to my team, and the descendant to the
"enemy". I have to say that the enemy has been pretty strong lately!
Neil



Thread: Football match
From: allen edwall <allen_edwall@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:12:57 -0400

>> how he knew how to assign Asc to team A or team B. Did he ask the
question *Will team A win the match?*, or is there some other way of
assigning Asc & Desc in such judgements?

In another technique: the home team or the favored team goes to the Asc and
the visiting team or underdog team goes to the Desc.

>> He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the
result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?

Llewellyn George in his 'A to Z.....' astrology book has a section on
forecasting sports events. I imagine he used those techniques or something
similar. I have seen good results using the methods with respect to
football games, especially Super Bowls and bowl games in general, and even
with hockey games.


Allen


Thread: NCGR Weekend Intensive on Classical Astrology
From: "J. Lee Lehman" <leephd@ix8.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:02:23 +0000
Status: U

From: AMNimark@aol.com
The following is information about the National Council for
Geocoscmic Research's Fall Intensive on Classical Astrology, to be
held in Cape Cod. For those who may be interested, the following
Monday, Nov. 10th, I will be presenting a special one-day intensive
in the Boston area to cover the prerequisites for my Classical
Studies in Medical Course. Check my web page for details.
------
NCGR's First Intensive Study Weekend to be held on Cape Code the
weekend of November 7 - 9, 1997 at the Four Points Hotel on Rte 6 in
Eastham.

The teachers will be Rob Hand, Lee Lehman Ph.D, Joseph Crane and
Chris LaFond.

On this weekend, NCGR will be presenting an intensive on traditional
astrology featuring the best of ancient and medieval astrology in a
form in which they can be used by the modern astrologer. The program
will feature two tracks. One will be for those who are familiar with
modern astrology but have little or no experience with traditional
astrology. The other track will be for those who have some experience
with traditional astrology but need more information on approaching
the chart systematically from a traditional perspective. In both
tracks the emphasis will be on techniques and application, not theory
except insofar as theory helps to explain the practice. It is expected
that all participants at whatever level will come away from these
workshops with techniques that they can put into use in their
astrological practice right away.

The Elementary Traditional Track will include such topics as Planetary
Sect, the proper use of essential and accidental dignities, the
traditional approach to rulerships and Almutens. There will also be a
general introduction to the stylistic differences between modern
astrology and traditional astrology and an eye to adapting the
techniques and delineation styles of the older astrology to modern
needs.

The More Advanced Track will deal with the systematic approach to the
natal chart, the astrology of the soul as taught by medieval
astrologers, some basic predictive techniques not commonly found in
modern use as well as selected topics in Horary and Electional
astrology

Full conference which includes Friday evening's opening reception and
Saturday evenings dinner dance before September 1, 1997.----$125.00
for members. Non members before September 1, 1997. --- $160.00 After
September 1, 1997, members $150.00, Non members, $185.00 At the door,
members, $175.00, Non members, $210.00 Additional Dinner Dance
tickets, $40.00 Lunch plan $10.00 a day and $20.00 for two days
(Saturday and Sunday)

To register for the conference send check , money order or credit card
number to Helen Huber, 16 Anderson Parkway, Cedar Grove, N.J. You can
also register by phone or fax. Helen's phone and fax number,
201-256-1622. Or contact Arlene Marcia Nimark at 1242 East 8th Street,
B'klyn, N.Y. 11230 phone #,718-377-0482, fax # 718-252-4306 email
address, AMNimark@aol.com

The intensive will be held at the Four Points Hotel, Route 6,
Eastham, MA. 02642 Room rate is $79.00 plus tax, a night single or
double occupancy. This room rate also includes a buffet breakfast.
After July 1, 1997 you can register at the hotel by calling,
508/255-5000




---
J. Lee Lehman, Ph.D. (http://www2.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html)
P.O. Box 501107, Malabar FL 32950, USA (leephd@ix.netcom.com)
Phone (407) 728-2277 Fax (407) 728-2244
Horary & Electional Astrology Consultations & Instruction


Thread: Football match
From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Maggy Whitehouse/Jonathon Clark) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:08:57 -0700

I posted my reply in error directly to the originator of this query prior to
posting it to the list.

I append the reply I received and apologise if I have appeared "pompous"
about the "sacred art." It was not my intention to do so and, perhaps, it
reflects the downside of email inasmuch as it is sometimes difficult to get
across the subtleties that we might do in a face-to-face conversation.

That said, I stand by the content, if not the tone, of my original comments.
I feel the intention of our actions is paramount.
All the best,
Jonathon


Return-Path: <jon@freemuda.prod.phonelink.com>
>Delivered-To: treelife@easynet.co.uk
>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:12:58 BST
>From: jon@emarkt.com
>Subject: Re: football match
>To: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)
>
>I think some people can be a trifle pompous about the *sacred art*; not to
mention about pulp fiction cinema.
>
>>Dear Jon,
>>
>>You wrote:
>>
>>>there was quite an interesting programme on English tv yesterday in which
>>an astrologer was very successful in predicting results of football (soccer)
>>matches. He showed his chart and pointed out that the ascendant was for team
>>A and the desc for team B
>>>
>>>What I'd like to know is how he knew how to assign Asc to team A or team B.
>>Did he ask the question *Will team A win the match?*, or is there some other
>>way of assigning Asc & Desc in such judgements?
>>>He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the result.
>>What sort of technique would he have used for this?
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>--
>>>
>>Earlier this year I prepared the "perfect horary" in order to find out who
>>would win a particular football match. This is not just my definition of my
>>astrological skill as the judgement was confirmed by an extremely competent
>>and experienced astrologer.
>>
>>You may imagine my horror as I watched the results that night, only to
>>discover that my prediction was wrong. Although tempted to consign two years
>>work on traditional astrology to the trash can I (and the astrologer to whom
>>I had shown this prediction and who was equally surprised) struggled to find
>>a meaning.
>>
>>In the current climate, where it is so easy to draw a chart without engaging
>>in the contemplative process, I think the meaning is this:
>>
>>"Judge not upon every light motion, or without premeditation of the querent,
>>nor upon slight and triviall questions, or when the querent hath not wit to
>>know what he would demand." Lilly - p. 298.
>>
>>Sorry, if this sounds a bit of a kill joy but I think we rarely appreciate
>>the magnitude of the knowledge we are handling (remember the last scene of
>>"Raiders of the Lost Ark?") and it takes an experience like the one I had to
>>appreciate the overall situation.
>>
>>Much as I love sport I will no longer tackle this sort of question. By
>>contrast, however, if I were asked the question by the manager of the team
>>or a player or someone who had a direct interest then, subject to the usual
>>conditions, I would consider it fit for judgement.
>>
>>Best Wishes,
>>Jonathon
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>Jon
>--
>
>
>
>



Thread: Football match
From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:45:46 -0700

>To: jon@emarkt.com
>From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)
>Subject: Re: football match
>
>Dear Jon,
>
>You wrote:
>
>>there was quite an interesting programme on English tv yesterday in which
an astrologer was very successful in predicting results of football (soccer)
matches. He showed his chart and pointed out that the ascendant was for team
A and the desc for team B
>>
>>What I'd like to know is how he knew how to assign Asc to team A or team
B. Did he ask the question *Will team A win the match?*, or is there some
other way of assigning Asc & Desc in such judgements?
>>He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the result.
What sort of technique would he have used for this?
>>Thanks
>>
>>Jon
>>--
>>
>Earlier this year I prepared the "perfect horary" in order to find out who
would win a particular football match. This is not just my definition of my
astrological skill as the judgement was confirmed by an extremely competent
and experienced astrologer.
>
>You may imagine my horror as I watched the results that night, only to
discover that my prediction was wrong. Although tempted to consign two years
work on traditional astrology to the trash can I (and the astrologer to whom
I had shown this prediction and who was equally surprised) struggled to find
a meaning.
>
>In the current climate, where it is so easy to draw a chart without
engaging in the contemplative process, I think the meaning is this:
>
>"Judge not upon every light motion, or without premeditation of the
querent, nor upon slight and triviall questions, or when the querent hath
not wit to know what he would demand." Lilly - p. 298.
>
>Sorry, if this sounds a bit of a kill joy but I think we rarely appreciate
the magnitude of the knowledge we are handling (remember the last scene of
"Raiders of the Lost Ark?") and it takes an experience like the one I had to
appreciate the overall situation.
>
>Much as I love sport I will no longer tackle this sort of question. By
contrast, however, if I were asked the question by the manager of the team
or a player or someone who had a direct interest then, subject to the usual
conditions, I would consider it fit for judgement.
>
>Best Wishes,
>Jonathon
>>
>>
>



Thread: Football match
From: "J. Lee Lehman" <leephd@ix22.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:10:22 +0000

Jon wrote-

> there was quite an interesting programme on English tv yesterday in which an astrologer was very successful in predicting results of football (soccer) matches. He showed his chart and pointed out tha>
> What I'd like to know is how he knew how to assign Asc to team A or team B. Did he ask the question *Will team A win the match?*, or is there some other way of assigning Asc & Desc in such judgements> He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather
than just the result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?

You'll find an article on this subject by Bernadette Brady and me in
the current issue of the Astrological Journal, or on the Astrological
Association's web page http://www.astrologer.com/aanet/index.html
that spells out a method. We have treated the game chart as a variant
of war charts.

---
J. Lee Lehman, Ph.D. (http://www2.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html)
P.O. Box 501107, Malabar FL 32950, USA (leephd@ix.netcom.com)
Phone (407) 728-2277 Fax (407) 728-2244
Horary & Electional Astrology Consultations & Instruction


Thread: Japan Birth date
From: Hideaki Kokubu <kokubu@est.co.jp> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:03:13 +0900

Hello,

Japan's chart details are as follows:

Oct. 7, 1946
02:53 pm JST (-9)
Tokyo 139E42 35N39

The present Constitution was passed the Diet at the moment, and
astrologers here regard it as our national chart in general.

My article on our Constitution will appear in the Considerations
magazine before long.

Regards,

Hideaki


zarathu@epix.net wrote:
>
> Anybody have the currently considered birthdate of Japan and the current
> ruler, and California and its current governer?
>
> z


Thread: Japan Birth date
From: zarathu@epix.net Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:04:55 -0400 (EDT)

Anybody have the currently considered birthdate of Japan and the current
ruler, and California and its current governer?

z



Thread: Football match
From: jon@emarkt.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:42:55 BST

there was quite an interesting programme on English tv yesterday in which an astrologer was very successful in predicting results of football (soccer) matches. He showed his chart and pointed out that the ascendant was for team A and the desc for team B etc, but obviously for a mass tv programme didn't ay much more.
What I'd like to know is how he knew how to assign Asc to team A or team B. Did he ask the question *Will team A win the match?*, or is there some other way of assigning Asc & Desc in such judgements?
He also managed to predict the score (2 - 0) rather than just the result. What sort of technique would he have used for this?
Thanks

Jon
--




Thread: William Hague birth data?
From: "Hugh McNeill" <hcm@moose.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:43:07 +0000

> William Hague was born at approx. 6 a.m. 26 March 1961 in Rotherham,
> Yorkshire, UK (53n26 01w21) according to Caroline Gerard's data
> collection of House of Commons members 1992 -1997 write her at 6
> Belford Mews, Dean village, Edinburgh, EH4 3BT Scotland UK for a
> copy.
>
> I will stick my neck out on a third party horary I've asked (horrors
> of horrors) and say that Hague will not be the next leader of the
> Tory party so it looks like Ken Clarke is in.
>
> After looking further, I still think he will not win the tory
> leadership itself. Anyway, we'll see. I am in the process of
> hunting down Ken Clarke's time of birth and will pass it on if I am
> successful in obtaining it.
>

Hi Pat,

Thank you for the data and I'm sorry to take so long to get back to
you - these last two days have been very hectic.

Ken Clarke's data will be very revealing, (and please let me know if
you chance across it), but the person who is going to hang around for
a long time and upset the applecart is John Redwood. Do you have his
data, too?

We certainly live in interesting times, with the apparent Thatcher -
Blair liaison and the complete reversal of power. Incidentally, if you
have an AstroCartography program, Tony Blair's chart has extensive
connections with Europe: His progressed (ACG) maps show continuing
connections with Europe and especially Germany, (although this latter
contact will not benefit him in the long term).

Initial views of William Hague's chart also show good contacts with
Europe, (perhaps not as strong as Tony Blair's), and with a better
distribution of planetary lines across the world map.

These are both leaders for our times: We shall see if the Blair -
Hague Opposition will materialize, and then if it can be positively
energised.

I will definitely get a copy of Caroline Gerard's data. I saw a copy
of it at the Astrological Association about a year ago, and it was
very comprehensive. I wonder if Caroline is updating it to include as
many of the new MP's as possible.

All the best,
Hugh
.
Hugh McNeill
hcm@moose.co.uk


Thread: McVeigh
From: Miriam Laister <cosmic@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:43:45

Dear Jeanne,

I don't remember if the original source was given. Let's face it, to
non-astrologers, half out out would not make a difference!

Miriam
>>
>>Timothy McVeigh Apr 23, 1968 08:30:00 AM EST Lockport,NY 078W41'26"
43N10'14"
>>
>>This was posted on the Festival list last year.
>
>Just to muddy the waters a bit, his father stated on the tape used in court
>that he was born at "8 in the morning." Was the Festival post from a birth
>certificate, or...?
>
> Jeanne

--
"We stood at last beyond the Gold Gate. Masters of Time and Fate, and knew
the song that Sun and Stars were singing."
Miriam Laister - THE COSMIC EXPERIENCE astrology newsletter - GEMINI TAPES
astrology lectures on tape.


Thread: Beginner Questions
From: sueward@easynet.co.uk Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:36:37 -0700
Status: U

Nice to hear from you, Jane.

>1) When calculating dignities and debilities do you use the current
>placements of the Fixed Stars Cor Leonis, Spica and Algol rather than
>those given by Lilly?

Yes and you might like to calculate the current positions (and modern names)
for all those he used. I believe that Carol has some worksheets with all
these listed.

>2) If the Moon will make no aspects except to Uranus, Neptune or Pluto
>before changing signs would she be considered Void of Course?

You might like to get the old messages on the thread of the void of course
condition, Carol puts them on her website. For now it might help you to know
that Lilly defines a void of course planet as one which makes no
applications whilst it is in its current sign. Application means to be
moving forward to an aspect, BUT it must be within the joint moieties as you
describe below. So, for an application to be operating the two planets must
be within orbs of aspect (that is, within their joint moieties). Thus, a
planet can be void in early degrees and not void in late degrees if it has
an application to perfect after it changes sign.

Personally, I do not take account of the new planets, those who do must tell
you their experience of any orb they attribute to these. If I did use them I
would not allow them any orb and so any application would depend on the
moiety of the applying (traditional) planet.

>3) On p113 Lilly describes 'hayz' and states 'In Questions it usually
>shows the content of the Question at the time of the Question, when his
>significator is so found". Would this mean, for example, if a question
>was asked about a Career choice (10th house matter) and Leo was on the
>Asc with Sun in Aries in the 9th (in Hayz) that the querent was really
>concerned about their education or other 9th house matters as it relates
>to their career or that their *real* concern; the true 'content' of
>their question is solely concerned with 9th house matters?

The full quote is: " Hayz is when a Masculine and Diurnal Planet is in the
day time above the earth, and in a Masculine Sign, and so when a Feminine,
Nocturnal Planet in the night is in a Feminine Sign and under the earth: In
Questions it usually shews the content of the Querent at time of the
Question, when his Significator is so found.

"Content" in this instance means 'satisfaction, happiness'.

>4) Lilly gives the orbs for each planet as being 'before and after'
>which I took to mean the full orb was allowed either applying or
>seperating however on p107 under Platick Aspects he says he uses the
>'moiety' of the planets. My trusty Websters defines 'moiety' as 'a half;
>one of two equal parts' or as 'an undefined share or part'. Lilly
>appears to be using it in the sense of a 'half' as his example of Venus
>at 10 Taurs and Saturn at 18 Virgo are in Platick Trine as half of
>Venus' orb is 4 and half of Saturns orb is 5, 5+4 = 9; Venus and Saturn
>are 8 degrees apart which is less than 9 degrees therefore they are in
>Platick trine.

You are right it is the half orb which extends before and after the planet,
so to speak.

>Then on p113 under Combustion he says a planet is combust if it is
>within 8 deg 30min of the Sun but gives an example of Jupiter combust
>at 28 Aries with Sun at 18 Aries, which is a 10 degree difference. He
>says "I allow the moiety of his own orbs to show the time of
>combustion". So, as half of the Sun's orb of 17 deg is 9 and half of
>Jupiters orb of 12 degrees is 6, 9+6=15 degrees therefore Jupiter is
>combust because the difference from the Sun is not greater than 15
>degrees.

Combustion is generally agreed at 8degs. or 8.5degs which is the case no
matter which planet is involved with the Sun. Notice that this is the Sun's
moiety.

>My question is; how are orbs really calculated? ie if Saturn is at 0
>Aries are planets considered conjunct from 0 to 9 deg Aries or 21 to 30
>deg Pisces; or are they conjunct only if between 0 to 4.5 deg Aries and
>25.5 to 30 deg Pisces or must you always take the moiety of Saturn and
>the conjuncting planet into account?

In traditional astrology more emphasis is placed on whether a planet is
applying to aspect, separating from aspect or is in a perfect (exact)
aspect. The principle though is the same throughout astrology, in that there
is a waxing and waning of the effect of the two planets linked by aspect.
Traditionally each planet has its own orb so you need to know these before
you can calculate the aspects. If say Mercury was at 15degs Taurus and
Saturn was at 21degs Capricorn this would be read as Mercury applying to
trine Saturn because Mercury's moiety is 3.5degs and Saturn's is 4.5 -
5degs. Adding these two together shows that it is more than the distance
between Mercury and Saturn.

Traditionally we use only the Ptolemaic aspects, otherwise known as the
major aspects.

Hope this is of use to you.

Sue
The Traditional Horary Course
sueward@easynet.co.uk
http://www.horary.com



Thread: Signis of Long and Sort Ascension
From: Neil <neils@saschools.edu.au> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:42:57 -0700

I live and work in Adelaide, South Australia, which has a latitude of
34S56 and naturally the signs of long and short ascension are reversed.
My experience has been that sextiles between planets in Capricorn through
to Gemini do appear as squares, and in the same signs, squares as trines.
Likewise, trines between planets in Cancer through Sag (ie Signs of Short
Ascension in the South) do act as squares.

However, overall, this seems to be a secondary consideration to the whole
chart, which tends to give the answer without too much emphasis on the
type of aspect. It seems to be particularly useful in relationship
questions.

Neil




Thread: Astrology4Mac-Update
From: BCGoodwin@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:18:58 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

Thanks to all who responded to my call for help with my Mercury Astrology
Program and requests for other Mac astrology programs.

I added this bit to the e-mail to Athena-medicine garden list.
>>Perhaps I should try a paper remedy??? : D
Mercury won't work 30C
Mercury expletive deleted 30C????>>
I added that as a half joke, having limited experience with paper remedies.

However..... ( : D
Here's what happened:
You folks sent lots of sympathetic and helpful responses. Tees your extensive
list will give me some exploring to do. Basil..The Matrix rep lead gives me
hope that perhaps we can get some help that way. And others confirming that
they had problems with the program too, was especially comforting. (it's not
just me)

My husband and I were pondering the program after it had crashed on me for
the third time that morning. I had noticed it always opens with "Open
charts", but it didn't really seem to be necessary as I could open charts
without it. Alan remembered that we could change that to "Open with New
Chart". We clicked on that. What a difference!!!

I "played" all day, (working on charts) and the program didn't freeze once!
Not once. Wow!! It's the most fun I've had doing charts in a long time.

By the way, I have Mercury 5 AQ. retrograde natally, conjunct Venus 6 Aq.
(7th house.) Uranus is transiting.
Ahhhhhh Lightening bolts. I love it. Transformation of the way I "think",
a la paper remedies to fix something "mechanical" an astrology program, no
less!!
Creating opportunities for new relationships with lots and lots of people.
The layers to this are endless.

Thank you, again, for your support.

Barbara Goodwin
Mandalas-The Center of the Circle
http://members.aol.com/bgoodwitch/


Thread: Astrology programs for Macs??
From: Chien <ctrpoise@jvlnet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 10:48:59 -0000
Status: U

Subject:
Sent: 6/13/97 10:47 AM
To:

> For Christmas last year, my husband bought me "Mercury" from Matrix.
> Does anyone else have this program? What has been your experience?
> I'm having a terrible time with it. The creator of the program told my
> husband that "most people don't use the filing feature"!!!???????????? (it
> doesn't work consistently, which is my opinion of the entire program)

I also am using "Mercury" and have been very frustrated at times. I spent
three full days trying over and over again to get the settings to "hold."
I was finally successful! (I think!) I have not experienced any problem
with filing, however and I do use that feature a lot. I believe the key
is to watch the information bar at the bottom of the screeen when setting
anything in the program. With the aspects, you first add and then update.
If you don't click update, they won't stay. When you get your setting
"right" and working.....I strongly recommend saving them on a backup. The
program has a proclivity for the setting to become afflicted, at which
time you "trash" the settings and restart the program, which will then
have a replaced "settings" file. Then, if you don't have them backed up
to copy back into the program, you're faced with resetting many fo them.

And much thanks to Basil Ferrington for the Matrix rep referral. I talked
with a rep from Matrix on the phone this week and hung up with more
questions than I had when I called. The gentleman was kind and patient,
though not helpful. I'm sure the representatives all have their areas of
stronger knowledge.

Donna C.


Thread: McVeigh
From: Miriam Laister <cosmic@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:01:29

Hi Mary,

I have:

Timothy McVeigh Apr 23, 1968 08:30:00 AM EST Lockport,NY 078W41'26" 43N10'14"

This was posted on the Festival list last year.

At 03:56 AM 12/06/97 -0600, Mary O'Gara wrote:
>A friend needs Timothy McVeigh's birth data for a talk show. Does anyone
>here have it? Thought I'd seen it, but didn't capture. Thanks.
>Mary O'Gara (maryo@Rt66.com)
--
"We stood at last beyond the Gold Gate. Masters of Time and Fate, and knew
the song that Sun and Stars were singing."
Miriam Laister - THE COSMIC EXPERIENCE astrology newsletter - GEMINI TAPES
astrology lectures on tape.


Thread: Update - new mailinglist added
From: tees.reitsma@astronet.idn.nl (Tees Reitsma) Date: 13 Jun 97 07:03:56 +0200
Status: U

Please feel free to copy and publish this information!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The following international Newsgroups, Mailinglists and Newsletters for
astrology are now free of charge available via email:

USENET NEWSGROUPS
=================

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(04:17:30 GMT June 29), San Diego, CA, USA
(32N43 117W09).
For astrological ADVERTISING!

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NOTE:
====
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---
--- Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E T2
---


Thread: McVeigh
From: jeanneg@icon.net (Jeanne Garner) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:20:52 -0500
Status: U

>Hi Mary,
>
>I have:
>
>Timothy McVeigh Apr 23, 1968 08:30:00 AM EST Lockport,NY 078W41'26" 43N10'14"
>
>This was posted on the Festival list last year.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, his father stated on the tape used in court
that he was born at "8 in the morning." Was the Festival post from a birth
certificate, or...?

Jeanne
==-* My stars!



Thread: Beginner Questions
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:07:42 -0400 (EDT)

At 03:30 PM 6/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm reading William Lilly's first book and hope some of you won't mind
>clearing up a couple of points that are puzzling me:
>
>1) When calculating dignities and debilities do you use the current
>placements of the Fixed Stars Cor Leonis, Spica and Algol rather than
>those given by Lilly?
>
>2) If the Moon will make no aspects except to Uranus, Neptune or Pluto
>before changing signs would she be considered Void of Course?
>
>3) On p113 Lilly describes 'hayz' and states 'In Questions it usually
>shows the content of the Question at the time of the Question, when his
>significator is so found". Would this mean, for example, if a question
>was asked about a Career choice (10th house matter) and Leo was on the
>Asc with Sun in Aries in the 9th (in Hayz) that the querent was really
>concerned about their education or other 9th house matters as it relates
>to their career or that their *real* concern; the true 'content' of
>their question is solely concerned with 9th house matters?
>
>4) Lilly gives the orbs for each planet as being 'before and after'
>which I took to mean the full orb was allowed either applying or
>seperating however on p107 under Platick Aspects he says he uses the
>'moiety' of the planets. My trusty Websters defines 'moiety' as 'a half;
>one of two equal parts' or as 'an undefined share or part'. Lilly
>appears to be using it in the sense of a 'half' as his example of Venus
>at 10 Taurs and Saturn at 18 Virgo are in Platick Trine as half of
>Venus' orb is 4 and half of Saturns orb is 5, 5+4 = 9; Venus and Saturn
>are 8 degrees apart which is less than 9 degrees therefore they are in
>Platick trine.
>
>Then on p113 under Combustion he says a planet is combust if it is
>within 8 deg 30min of the Sun but gives an example of Jupiter combust
>at 28 Aries with Sun at 18 Aries, which is a 10 degree difference. He
>says "I allow the moiety of his own orbs to show the time of
>combustion". So, as half of the Sun's orb of 17 deg is 9 and half of
>Jupiters orb of 12 degrees is 6, 9+6=15 degrees therefore Jupiter is
>combust because the difference from the Sun is not greater than 15
>degrees.
>
>My question is; how are orbs really calculated? ie if Saturn is at 0
>Aries are planets considered conjunct from 0 to 9 deg Aries or 21 to 30
>deg Pisces; or are they conjunct only if between 0 to 4.5 deg Aries and
>25.5 to 30 deg Pisces or must you always take the moiety of Saturn and
>the conjuncting planet into account?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jane
>
>
>

1) The term "fixed stars" is a misnomer born out of lack of knowledge. They
were so name originally because the ancients did not have the data to show
they did move. You should of course use the current placement for "stars".

2) The Moon isn not VOC until it has aspected all the planets. In the case
where Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are the final planets, what you will see is
a radical Moon, reacting to conditions and ideas, rather that people and events.

3) Common interpretation of the condition you describe, usually relates to
the placement of the Part of Fortune. If the querent asks about job
prospects and the POF falls in the 9th, it would tend to indicate a
schooling perspective to the question.
I would tend to think, in the example you pose, the ruler of the asc.
in the ninth, tended to show the querent in the education phase of life at
the moment, rather than
his state of mind at that moment.

4) Mixed message here. On the combustion, when a planet is with 8.5 to 17
degrees it is "under the sunbeams", which is a lesser form of combustion.
(also, when the planet is within 1/2 degree of the Sun, it seems to nullify
the combustion attribute and become a very strong positive aspect.
On the question of orbs in horary, when you do give them wide orbs, you
must be extremely careful not to miss another planet that may form an
interrupting aspect in the meantime. If you are watching an approaching
conjunction at a 9 degree orb, often times a faster moving planet will
intervene and cancel out the expected conjunctive influence.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Beginner Questions
From: Jane Griscti <"Jane Griscti"@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:30:45 -0400

Hi,

I'm reading William Lilly's first book and hope some of you won't mind
clearing up a couple of points that are puzzling me:

1) When calculating dignities and debilities do you use the current
placements of the Fixed Stars Cor Leonis, Spica and Algol rather than
those given by Lilly?

2) If the Moon will make no aspects except to Uranus, Neptune or Pluto
before changing signs would she be considered Void of Course?

3) On p113 Lilly describes 'hayz' and states 'In Questions it usually
shows the content of the Question at the time of the Question, when his
significator is so found". Would this mean, for example, if a question
was asked about a Career choice (10th house matter) and Leo was on the
Asc with Sun in Aries in the 9th (in Hayz) that the querent was really
concerned about their education or other 9th house matters as it relates
to their career or that their *real* concern; the true 'content' of
their question is solely concerned with 9th house matters?

4) Lilly gives the orbs for each planet as being 'before and after'
which I took to mean the full orb was allowed either applying or
seperating however on p107 under Platick Aspects he says he uses the
'moiety' of the planets. My trusty Websters defines 'moiety' as 'a half;
one of two equal parts' or as 'an undefined share or part'. Lilly
appears to be using it in the sense of a 'half' as his example of Venus
at 10 Taurs and Saturn at 18 Virgo are in Platick Trine as half of
Venus' orb is 4 and half of Saturns orb is 5, 5+4 = 9; Venus and Saturn
are 8 degrees apart which is less than 9 degrees therefore they are in
Platick trine.

Then on p113 under Combustion he says a planet is combust if it is
within 8 deg 30min of the Sun but gives an example of Jupiter combust
at 28 Aries with Sun at 18 Aries, which is a 10 degree difference. He
says "I allow the moiety of his own orbs to show the time of
combustion". So, as half of the Sun's orb of 17 deg is 9 and half of
Jupiters orb of 12 degrees is 6, 9+6=15 degrees therefore Jupiter is
combust because the difference from the Sun is not greater than 15
degrees.

My question is; how are orbs really calculated? ie if Saturn is at 0
Aries are planets considered conjunct from 0 to 9 deg Aries or 21 to 30
deg Pisces; or are they conjunct only if between 0 to 4.5 deg Aries and
25.5 to 30 deg Pisces or must you always take the moiety of Saturn and
the conjuncting planet into account?

Thanks,

Jane


Thread: William Hague birth data?
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:49:43 +0100

>Does anyone have the birth data of William Hague, Tory Party
>leadership contender?
>
>Thanks,
>Hugh McNeill
>hcm@moose.co.uk
>
>

Hello, Hugh, you are here, too!

William Hague's birth data is 26th March, 1961 Rotherham, Yorkshire 53n26
01w21 He says he was born at approx. 6 a.m. which is 5 00 am. GMT.

Comprehensive data list of House of Commons MP's available from Caroline
Gerard, 6 Belford Mews, Dean Village, Edinburgh, EH4 3BT Scotland, UK.
Price £8.00

After looking further, I still think he will not win the tory leadership
itself. Anyway, we'll see. I am in the process of hunting down Ken
Clarke's time of birth and will pass it on if I am successful in obtaining it.

Kind regards,

Pat.



Thread: Signs of Long and Short Ascension - a Question
From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:28:44 -0700

When considering the aspects made by planets to each other Lilly makes an
adjustment if both planets are in signs of long ascension (Cancer to
Sagittarius) or short ascension (Capricorn to Gemini.

Thus, Moon in Aquarius is sextile to Mercury in Taurus rather than square
and square to Mercury in Gemini rather than trine.

Moon in Virgo would be square to Mercury in Scorpio rather than square and
trine to Mercury in Sagittarius rather than Square.

He makes these adjustments because the signs have a marked difference in the
time they take to rise when viewed from London, where Lilly lived, at 51
degrees 30 minutes North.

My question is this:

What experience do other astrologers have of the latitude at which these
adjustments are no longer necessary. On the equator all signs rise in equal
time - or at least they do when the sun is directly overhead so no
adjustment is necessary but what latitude is the cut off point?
I'm particularly interested in the experience of astrologers living on the
same latitude as the Middle East where astrology started - between 30 and 40
degrees North approximately which would included Los Angeles, San Francisco
and Washington DC.

Also, to what extent, if any, are these adjustments made in the Southern
Hemisphere - even Melbourne is only about the same distance South of the
Equator as the Middle Eastern countries are North of the Equator.

I look forward with interest to hearing from you all.

Regards,
Jonathon Clark



Thread: SUBJECT
From: maryo@Rt66.com (Mary O'Gara) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:56:23 -0600

A friend needs Timothy McVeigh's birth data for a talk show. Does anyone
here have it? Thought I'd seen it, but didn't capture. Thanks.
Mary O'Gara (maryo@Rt66.com)



Thread: Astrology programs for Macs??
From: zarathu@epix.net Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:40:43 -0400 (EDT)

While I use IO which is a commercial program--I use it mostly to get a
visual chart. Mostly I need data, and for me nothing beats the shareware
program Astrolog 5.30.

While it doesn't have a mac interface, the extensive comprehensiveness of
the application with everything from Progressions, Transits and natals to
Jim Lewis' Astro*Cartraphy, makes it the champ for me. And its free.

Take a little learning, but its really astounding.

eric




Thread: A New List to Discuss Children
From: Julienne <zjulienne@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:48:58 +0000
Status: U
X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0

Dear All,

A new List will be starting today, by request, to discuss children's issues,
childhood, etc. The people on the List as it is launched include
astrologers, psychologists, homeopaths, etc. The only requirement for
membership on the List is that you need to have once been a child, or still
be one. :)

We will be discussing whatever comes to us - our own childhood issues,
cultural childhood questions, historical issues, etc. Everything from
children's astrological signatures to sex in the family bed to comparing
family member's charts, and generational family psychological patterns. The
members of the List will drive the agenda.

You are welcome to join with us. If you would like to, please e-mail Jill
Reade at jj@mapua.gen.nz, or me at zjulienne@worldnet.att.net, and we will
be happy to include you.

Warmly,

Julienne




X-cs:
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: @LILLY.PML
Subject: Announcement
Cc: @W_LILLY2.PML, @LILLY3.PML
Reply-to: william_lilly@halcyon.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:52:32 +7

The Southern Astrologer Magazine from Australia is now available
(actually came out with its first edition in April 1997). The
concept of this magazine was belongs to Anne Elliott who decided a
couple of years ago that she would like to have a publication for
those astrologers in Australia (and surrounding areas) and those
astrologers who had visited and spoken in Australia, to have a
printed forum in which to present their views. This first issue is a
fine example of that.

Once she decided to go forward with the idea she was joined by Linda
Reid and the first issue rolled off the presses. Anne has all the
printing gear set up and will be producing The Southern Astrologer on
a quarterly basis.

There is probably more that could be said about this but I will leave
that to people who have read the magazine to put in their comments.
One part that I do like is the Medieval Astrology and of course the
horary section. If you would like more information you can contact
Anne at spica@world.net

JustUs & Associates will be taking subscriptions for The Southern
Astrologer from Australia and The Traditional Astrologer from UK by
Deborah Houlding .

The Horary Practitioner is expanding to include Traditional forms of
Horary, Electional, Natal, Medical and Mundane Astrology! Not much
more you could ask for there. Our July issue should be shipped (if
everything goes OK-I could swear that Mercury has been retrograde for
the last 3 months!) in the middle of July. We will be taking renewal
of subscriptions for 1998 at that time.

J.Lee Lehman has expanded her list of courses and will have a
set of courses you just can't pass up especially if you like to get
together as a group and enjoy those intensives....the Atlanta group
is especially enthusiastic as well as the Arizona group! There is
more information at her website
http://www2.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html

Sue Ward is also available for teaching, her course is detailed at
the horary website, as well as consultations. Be sure to check that
info out. http://www.horary.com

Dorothy Kovach is doing both horary and electional charts, much to
everyones' delight. Her bio is at the horary website under "What is
Horary Astrology".

Deborah Houlding is also available for consultation and her bio is at
the horary website in the same place as above.

Our new specials will be up at the site by the weekend so be sure to
stop by and take a look. Also the Table of Contents for the July
Issue of The Horary Practitioner.

Thank you for you patience with this news bulletin!
Love & Light
Carol

Thread: William Hague birth data?
From: "Hugh McNeill" <hcm@moose.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:44:25 +0000
Status: U

Does anyone have the birth data of William Hague, Tory Party
leadership contender?

Thanks,
Hugh McNeill
hcm@moose.co.uk


Thread: Astrology programs for Macs??
From: tees.reitsma@astronet.idn.nl (Tees Reitsma) Date: 11 Jun 97 10:27:36 +0200
Status: U

Hello Barbara,

The best programs for the Macintosh are from:

Time Cycles Research
375 Willetts Avenue
Waterford, CT 06385, USA
Phone 1-860-444-6641
Fax 1-860-442-0625
Email: astrology@timecycles.com
URL: http://www.timecycles.com

Love,
Tees
---
--- Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E T2
---


Thread: Astrology programs for Macs??
From: Hardaspect@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:34:20 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

In a message dated 97-06-10 22:20:38 EDT, you write:

<< Help!!! I need "healing" of a different kind for my astrology program!
When we first got the computer I purchased "Celeste" from Astro-Lab (Rob
Hand's folks). Liked it a lot, it did basic stuff real well. They don't
have any upgrades for this program and told me they don't intend to.

For Christmas last year, my husband bought me "Mercury" from Matrix.
Does anyone else have this program? What has been your experience?
I'm having a terrible time with it. The creator of the program told my
husband that "most people don't use the filing feature"!!!???????????? (it
doesn't work consistently, which is my opinion of the entire program)

I won't go into the list of complaints. So basically I want to know....is
it
just me?
Or have other folks had similar problems? What did you do to resolve it?

Have any of you Mac users found an astrology program that you really like?
I want: color, filing capabilities, transits and progressions. I would like
to set my own aspects and have them STAY that way. (Mercury, I set it and
then re-set again with instructions in hand and still it has a mind of its
own)

If anyone is interested in doing a "horary" on this, I would gratefully
accept it.

I'm sending this to several lists, just in case. Thank you, in advance, for
any suggestions.

Barbara Goodwin >>
Hi Barbara,
Sorry to hear about all of your problems with Mercury. I strongly suggest
that you email Stephanie@thenewage.com or Walt@thenewage.com. They are both
Matrix reps that would be more than willing to help you with your problems.

Basil Fearrington


Thread: Void of course
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:00:45 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

At 04:31 PM 6/10/97 PDT, you wrote:
>How do you other astrologers calculate void of course Sun and planets?
>Is it the last aspect made to a slower planet or formed with any
>planet? This can make a big difference ,of course. Can v/c be applied to
>all planets? Is this a relatively new area of study? I dont notice any
>older texts speaking on this. What is your experience? I and some of my
>clients really noticed the void of course mercury last Sunday afternoon.
>On of my clients was really spaced, and another could hardly think
>straight.
>
>Bruce Grover Nelson <v33@hotmail.com>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
The classical answer is that the Moon is VOC after it has made it's
final "major" aspect to the planets, before leaving the sign. The
semi-sextile and quincunx are not considered by some, but I find that they
do apply and indicate a condition of receiving some payment (semi-sextile)
or making a payment (quincunx).
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Void of course
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:00:45 -0400 (EDT)
Status: U

At 04:31 PM 6/10/97 PDT, you wrote:
>How do you other astrologers calculate void of course Sun and planets?
>Is it the last aspect made to a slower planet or formed with any
>planet? This can make a big difference ,of course. Can v/c be applied to
>all planets? Is this a relatively new area of study? I dont notice any
>older texts speaking on this. What is your experience? I and some of my
>clients really noticed the void of course mercury last Sunday afternoon.
>On of my clients was really spaced, and another could hardly think
>straight.
>
>Bruce Grover Nelson <v33@hotmail.com>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
The classical answer is that the Moon is VOC after it has made it's
final "major" aspect to the planets, before leaving the sign. The
semi-sextile and quincunx are not considered by some, but I find that they
do apply and indicate a condition of receiving some payment (semi-sextile)
or making a payment (quincunx).
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Astrology programs for Macs??
From: BCGoodwin@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:22:23 -0400 (EDT)

Help!!! I need "healing" of a different kind for my astrology program!
When we first got the computer I purchased "Celeste" from Astro-Lab (Rob
Hand's folks). Liked it a lot, it did basic stuff real well. They don't
have any upgrades for this program and told me they don't intend to.

For Christmas last year, my husband bought me "Mercury" from Matrix.
Does anyone else have this program? What has been your experience?
I'm having a terrible time with it. The creator of the program told my
husband that "most people don't use the filing feature"!!!???????????? (it
doesn't work consistently, which is my opinion of the entire program)

I won't go into the list of complaints. So basically I want to know....is it
just me?
Or have other folks had similar problems? What did you do to resolve it?

Have any of you Mac users found an astrology program that you really like?
I want: color, filing capabilities, transits and progressions. I would like
to set my own aspects and have them STAY that way. (Mercury, I set it and
then re-set again with instructions in hand and still it has a mind of its
own)

If anyone is interested in doing a "horary" on this, I would gratefully
accept it.

I'm sending this to several lists, just in case. Thank you, in advance, for
any suggestions.

Barbara Goodwin
Mandalas-The Center of the Circle
http://members.aol.com/bgoodwitch/



X-cs:
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: @LILLY.PML
Subject: letters
Cc: @W_LILLY2.PML, @LILLY3.PML
Reply-to: william_lilly@halcyon.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:56:45 +7

Dear Members,
I have just added the May letters to the lilly list up at the website
in a ZIP file. You can pick up the file any time. For new members
this area is halfway down the front page where it says "William Lilly
mailing list"
Love & Light
Carol

Thread: Void of course
From: "bruce nelson" <v33@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:31:05 PDT

How do you other astrologers calculate void of course Sun and planets?
Is it the last aspect made to a slower planet or formed with any
planet? This can make a big difference ,of course. Can v/c be applied to
all planets? Is this a relatively new area of study? I dont notice any
older texts speaking on this. What is your experience? I and some of my
clients really noticed the void of course mercury last Sunday afternoon.
On of my clients was really spaced, and another could hardly think
straight.

Bruce Grover Nelson <v33@hotmail.com>


---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------


Thread: Restaurant and other elections
From: "Christopher A. LaFond" <lafond@bc.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 17:25:19 -0400

Hi all,

I was reading through the recent postings on opening the restaurant and
decided to share a recent election I did for a friend opening a New Age/Old
Age/Magical Gift type shop.

She was hoping to open for Memorial Day weekend, which here in the US is
the last Monday of May (23-25 this year), and she was rushing with the
renovations to the building in order to open for the Holiday (it had been a
restaurant). But I didn't like any of the charts that weekend because of
the opposition of the Sun to Pluto all weekend long, as well as the Moon's
conjunction to Pluto in the early part of the weekend. I wanted to put a
sign on the ascendent that was a bit lively, that would draw people out to
the place (past experiences of [non-elected] Cancer rising charts for
psychic fair weekends where everyone stayed home have not gone unnoticed).
A logical choice was Leo, which here on Cape Cod is rising in the late
morning. Now the Sun is not all that dignified in either Taurus or Gemini;
but I liked Mercury (merchants) on the MC in these charts, especially as it
was (in Taurus) in mutual disposition (mutual reception without an aspect)
with Venus in Gemini. On top of that, Mercury rules the 2nd ($ & resources)
and the 11th (2nd from the 10th of the business). I didn't want to open
before 11 am (Eastern Daylight Time) because I wanted that nasty Saturn in
Aries far from the MC.

I also didn't like the Moon in Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, or Capricorn
most of the week. And I didn't like it waning either. Also, I wanted to
keep Pluto out of the fourth (last friends who owned a shop with Pluto in
the fourth [non-elected opening] now can't even sell the building because
the basement, plumbing, and building supports are rotting away!). By the
way, I am using whole sign houses for meaning, and the angles only for
strength of the planets.

You can see how difficult this was becoming. However, we came up with the
same solution that you all recommended for the restaurant--a ceremonial
opening a week early. I moved the chart back to Friday, May 16 at 11:02 AM
EDT. This puts Mercury on the MC to near the minute. It also moves the Moon
back to Virgo--not itself great, but in the 2nd, just separated from Mars,
the next application is a trine to the Sun in Taurus (which is disposed of
by the Mercury in Mutual Disposition with Venus), and then the Trine to
Neptune (not bad for new Agey stuff). This way, the Sun was not void of
course either. (And I guess the Moon would be translating light from Sun to
Neptune--or trying to anyway!) Venus is in the 11th (2nd from 10th) too and
dignified due to Mercury in Taurus, and Pluto and Saturn safely (I hope)
stuffed respectively in the 5th and the 9th.

So we had a short ceremony where I gave a brief dedication, the owner
pronounced the place open, and a few of us purchased the first items. Then
we closed the door and continued stocking the shelves for a week until they
were ready to open full-time for the Holiday weekend. So far business has
been great.

By the way, I would just like to point out that of all of the election
charts that we do for businesses, how many of those are businesses that
profess to believe in what we do? I have seen some atrocious, non-elected
opening charts for folks who give lip service to astrology while ignoring
it in their lives.

The final chart was:

May 16, 1997 11:02 AM EDT
Sandwich Massachusetts, 41N46, 70W30

Hope this is helpful for folks,

Chris
*******************************************************************
Christopher A. LaFond (lafond@bc.edu)
National Council for Geocosmic Research, Cape Cod Chapter
http://www2.bc.edu/~lafond/ncgr/ncgrhome.html


X-cs:
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: @LILLY.PML
Subject: additional mailing address
Cc: @W_LILLY2.PML, @LILLY3.PML
Reply-to: william_lilly@halcyon.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:41:59 +7

Good Morning,
For those of you who have had problems responding to the list because
of the address, I am glad to be able to tell you thast we have
aquired another address for you to use. It will bring your mail to
the list but it is without the underscore which seems to cause the
problem. If you will address your e-mail as follows it will go
through the list and you should have less problems sending it.
If you are not having problems with sending us mail then please stay
with the address you are now using.
new address traditional@halcyon.com

The Horary Practitioner is off to the printer, I took a couple of
days off to catch my breath and go riding and I am now back to work.
I will have new books up on the website that have just been completed
and be sure to check out the information at Lee Lehman's site about
her new courses. There is a link to her site at the bottom of our
website.

The Horary Practitioner will be shipped out in mid July if all goes
well and I will let you know when I ship it. For those of you who
would like a free catalog with your issue (or without) please let me
know by e-mail and I will send it out to you.

I hope you are all going to enjoy your summer and enjoy the mailing
list.
Love & Light
Carol

Thread: Pregnancy
From: Herman Van Roey <astro.baldur@glo.be> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:48:06 +0200

Hi everybody. I had a question asked by a client, whether she would get
pregnant again this year. The chart was erected for these data:
april 28, 1997; 11:58 AM Central European Summer Time; Morsel (Belgium)
51N10, 004E24
which yield an asc. 3Leo 50.
I had printed the chart, but had no time to study it until a week ago
(there was no urgency about the question).
I looked up Christian Astrology p. 223 a.f., and as far as I understand it
(this is my first pregnancy-question :->) the Moon as co-ruler of the
mother-to-be, making a trine with Mars ruler of the fifth, should yield a
YES.
For this Moon-position I would take a week or a month as the time-factor
per degree, so with an orb of 33minutes this person had to be pregnant
allready, when I started studying the chart.
What made me hesitate however to notify her of the good news, is Pluto
retrograde and intercepted in the fifth...
Also, from the reactions on Angela Reeve's question about pregnancy (some
similarities in these charts ...!) I understand that Leo-asc is barren (the
woman has allready one son), and Mars ruler of the fifth in Virgo is again
no good omen.
I hesitated and pondered long enough for this woman to phone me, asking if
I had yet found an answer to her question. I told her yes and no, and that
I wasn't sure about it. Then she informed me (this was on june 7th, same
coordinates, 11:15 AM) that she was a few weeks late with her menstruation;
she had done a pregn. test that turned out to be negative... I advised her
to double-check and do another test.
Could anyone please comment on these charts or maybe fill in some clues I
may be overlooking ?

TIA,

Herman.

IAHA! Integratieve Astrologie & Holistisch Advies! sinds 1979
*** Remembering the future,I cannot help wondering
as I stand in eternal now, what the past will bring...***

If you reply by E-mail, don't forget to eliminate the (anti-Spam) X when
present, from the adress <:-)




Thread: Museum Astrology Exhibit - please post if possible; thanx
From: Leviam@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:59:23 -0400 (EDT)

Please feel free to circulate this:
There is an exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, in the Islamic Wing,
called, "Following the Stars: Images of the Zodiac in Islamic Art", from
February 4 - August 31, 1997.

The exhibit is relatively small, consisting of 20 functional artifacts of
inlaid metal mainly from Iran, Egypt and Syria, 12th - 14th centuries, and
displays 2 manuscripts. One is mainly astronomical, "The Treatise of Fixed
Stars" by Al-Sufi. The other one is a Jalayarid compilation of treatises,
including "The Book of Nativities" by Abu Ma'Shar, which is often referred
to by Al-Biruni.

The curator, Dr. Stephano Carboni, wrote a paper on this displayed manuscript
for the Journal "Islamic Art", II; 1987, called "Two Fragments of a Jalayirid
Astrological Treatise in the Keir Collection and in the Oriental Institute in
Sarajevo". It is from 8th-14th century Baghdad, the late Jalayirid period,
from the atelier of Sultan Ahmad Jalayir. There are 3
parts to it: 1) The 28 Lunar Mansions - "the oldest surviving paintings on
this subject in the Islamic world." 2) Planets and conjunctions 3) "Kitab al
Mawalid" -"The Book of Nativities", by Abu Ma'shar, but the original Greek is
attributed to
Ptolemy, Hermes, or "the Wise One" in other manuscripts. This consists of 36
pictures of the Decan divisions, in the Chaldean order, with the Egyptian
terms, and 3 columns called "The Decade", with each decan degree modified by
circles of various shading, describing the quality of that day (degree)
within the decade. Only the 1st (Jupiter/Saturn) and 2nd (Jupiter/Jupiter)
Decans of Pisces are alternately displayed in the Exhibit.

If you are interested in a copy of this article, it is $2.00, + postage &
handling; please email me privately for my address and details.

There is also a wonderful publication of the exhibit, with black/white
illustrations and translations of some passages from the manuscript, for
$14.95 + SH + tax in some states. If you can't make it to the Museum or a
satellite shop, you can order it through their website:
http://www.metmuseum.org. It is called ""Following the Stars; Images of the
Zodiac in Islamic Art", and the sku # is: 05004221. You can also call the
museum bookshop at 212-650-2911, fax them at 212-650-2170, or write them at:
The Metropolitan Museum of Art/ Bookshop/ 1000 5th Ave./ New York, NY/ 10028,
or contact me for further information.

Dr. Carboni also wrote his thesis on a collection of treatises at the Oxford
Bodleian Library, called "Al Kitab al-Bulhan" ("The Book of Wonders"), also
from 14th century Baghdad. He gave me a copy of it but it is in Italian, and
I am looking for translators.

Here is the lecture schedule for June:

June 11, Wed., 3:00 p.m.: Gallery talk by the curator, Dr. Stefano Carboni,
at the exhibit in the Islamic Wing.

June 20, Fri., 6:00 p.m.: Lecture in Uris Center Auditorium, by Dr. Carboni.

(June 22, Sun., 3:00 p.m.: Lecture in Grace Rainey Rogers Auditorium:
"Byzantium, Islam, and the Tradition of Illustrated Scientific Manuscripts":
Linda Komaroff, associate curator of Islamic art, L.A. County Museum of Art;
George Saliba, professor of Mid. Eastern languages and cultures, Columbia
University. This seems to refer to the comtemporaneous Byzantium Exhibit, so
I'm unsure if the Astrol. Exhibit will be included, albeit quite relevant)

June 26, Thurs., 3:00 p.m.: Gallery talk by Dr. Carboni.

- Levia Shanken
Leviam@aol.com


Thread: Zodiac Gazette
From: "Rowena Wall" <urana-star@pop.mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:57:15 -05

Hi there:

We wanted to let you know that the Zodiac Gazette has moved to
its new and permanent home: http://www.starflash.com/zodiac
We hope you will come by and take a look.

Also, if any of you would like to have articles or horaries
you've done published on the Gazette, let me or Tallyn know.
Tallyn is at Tallyn@starflash.com and I am at the address above.

Also - Carol, or someone - can you please write up a little
paragraph as to what the List is about and how to sign up. If
you have a little graphic, send it along. We're make up a page
which will describe the lists and how to get on them.

Thanks everyone.

Rowena
Rowena Wall, Professional Astrologer
http://www.starflash.com/starstuff
http://www.starflash.com/zodiac


Thread: Accountant
From: j metz <jmetz@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:55:24 -0400

Hi friends-I just went to my accountant and he recommended that my
husband and I create a trust fund. What house do I look at to see if he
is on the up and up -I thought perhaps the 7th because he is the other
person that the question was about but I am thinking maybe its the 8th
because of taxes-what do you think??? Thanks Janis




Thread: Baby Abandoned Report.
From: "Dinesh R. Thakkar" <drt@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:27:28 +0530 (GMT+5:30)

Hello everyone,

There is this sad news item in the newspapers today. A baby was found
abandoned on a foothpath on 27 May. The baby was noticed by one Mr. Ashwin
Shah at 1745 Hrs. The location is Matunga, Mumbai, India. Mumbai was
formerly known as Bombay.

Inquires so far have not resulted in any answers so far.

Dinesh.





Thread: An imminent birth?
From: Keli Manson Sinclair <sinman@es.co.nz> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:03:16 +1200

Dear Hideaki,

Thank you for your answers to my questions[sorry I have'nt responded
earlier-my server has been down].
I was suspicious of Zadkiels input into this book of mine-I mean even his
name sounds like a charlatan pseudo-soothsayers!However,I will still
treasure the battered old thing as my now husband gave it to me when we
were 'courting'!For the 'real article',I will go for the book you've
recommended.
Your advice on the usage of the outer planets seems a wise approach and I
thank you for sharing it.

Keli Manson Sinclair

At 07:41 PM 6/4/97 +0900, you wrote:
>Dear Keli,
>
>First of all, Zadkiel's book is no good because he misunderstood Lilly
>and omitted many important informations. I strongly recommend Christian
>Astrology republished by Regulus.
>
>> However in a book I
>> have[An intro to Astrology-William Lilly-unfortunately tampered with by
>> Zadkiel]it says in this case you 'should not adventure judgement ' unless
>> 'his corporature,complexion'etc agree with the quality of the sign
>> ascending.
>
>Both the ascendant and the hour are ruled by Saturn. I think this chart
>is radical. (Zadkiel omitted the planetary hours.)
>
>> A further question-I note some people on this list are including the outer
>> planets-would this be usual practise?
>
>In my opinion, the trans-saturnians should not be discounted. But they
>should be considered after the chart is examined without them. In other
>words, the answer can be obtained by old planets only. One thing you
>should not do is, I think, assigning the trans-saturnians to the sign
>rulers.
>
>Regards,
>
>Hideaki
>
>



Thread: An imminent birth?
From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:00:20 -0700

>Dear Keli,

I'm putting in some notes here that hopefully may be of help to you and I
wish you every good fortune for the forthcoming birth.

Greetings to the list.I am a novice in horary technique,but I am quickly
>developing a deep interest in the traditional techniques via this list and
>Robert Zollers medieval course.I have many questions regarding a chart I
>established last night concerning the birth of my baby,'expected' on the
>10th of June.If there is anyone out there who can set me on the right
>course,I would be grateful.

>The question is will my birth have the successful outcome of a healthy
>mother and infant [ie a labour free of medical incident].I have some reason
>to worry,my last birth being protracted and difficult[but with a healthy
>baby].I set the chart for June 2 '97
>8:42pm NZT -12:00 Christchurch 43S32 172E38 Placidus.

The general practice is to use Regiomontanus Houses, following Lilly.

I also tried to glean
>the date of the birth from the chart,but this might be cheating as the
>question was'nt foremost in my mind at the time[although I am expending a
>great deal of thought on the subject as days go by!]

Not sure about cheating but the baby probably knows when it needs to arrive!

>Now,I spent quite a lot of time looking at this chart before I even
>remembered to check whether it was radical.The ascendant is 1AQ43,so it is
>not a valid chart -as it is in the first 2 degrees?

Early degrees usually mean it is too early to judge. The exception which
makes the chart valid is if the querent is very young. In this case, it is
the quesited, which is very young (i.e. - 1 week) but there might be a case
for this making the question valid as the subject is about someone young.
It's a bit marginal for my taste so I will defer judgement.


There is also no agreement between the Lady of the Hour, the Moon, and the
Ascendant although this is mitigated by the Moon's angularity in the fourth
house. My experience is that the clearest charts are the ones where there is
a direct agreement.

However in a book I
>have[An intro to Astrology-William Lilly-unfortunately tampered with by
>Zadkiel]it says in this case you 'should not adventure judgement ' unless
>'his corporature,complexion'etc agree with the quality of the sign
>ascending.I am a Sun Aquarius with Cap rising and in general fit the Saturn
>rulership-can I use this chart or shall I throw it?



>A further question-I note some people on this list are including the outer
>planets-would this be usual practise?I have a cosmobiological
>background,but have tried to adapt myself to not including the outers when
>using the traditional methods [as in Zollers course]. Now I am unsure of
>when to apply them.

I came to traditional astrology after seven years of modern astrology and
wanted to include the outer planets initially. While there is a case for
saying that methods must be updated or else they ossify, my experience is
that including the outer planets usually only serves to confuse matters. The
scale of time on which they operate is, in my view, very different from the
day to day focus which is required in questions such as this. They may
occasionally add some description but the meat of the answer will come from
the visible planets, sun and moon.

>Restraining myself to one further question-in the above mentioned books
>preface, Zadkiel says although his deviations from Lillys original work are
>few,he has omitted the chapters on nativities,quote'as in that part of the
>science he was less perfect than in any other;the reason being that he
>relied on essential dignities,which are by my experience,of little,if
>any,avail.'unquote.I thought horary had as its basis,the essential
>dignities,the assigning of merit points in order to judge a question.

I'd back Lilly over Zadkiel. However, there is no substitute for personal
experience so keep on studying with the rest of us and we'll see what we
find over the years.

The comment confuses me and makes me wonder how corrupted my 'Lilly' book
>is.Any guidance as to what 'modernisations' are acceptable would be
>appreciated.Also,any help with the baby question would be doubly
>appreciated,both from the students angle and the fact it is a question dear
>to my heart!Thanking you

Look forward to hearing that all is well.

Best Wishes,
Jonathon Clark>

>Keli Manson Sinclair
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Thread: Astrologers interested in speaking in St.Petersburg, Florida
From: AKingAst@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:32:59 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

The Astrology Association of St Petersburg, Florida is currently preparing
schedules for our monthly meetings. Any astrologers interesting in speaking
may contact AKingAst@aol.com. We are preparing for our 1997/98 season.

We appreciate your response and will add you to our query list. We pay our
speakers.

Thanks

Anne King, V.P
Tampa, Florida


Thread: An imminent birth?
From: Keli Manson Sinclair <sinman@es.co.nz> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:03:14 +1200

Greetings to the list.I am a novice in horary technique,but I am quickly
developing a deep interest in the traditional techniques via this list and
Robert Zollers medieval course.I have many questions regarding a chart I
established last night concerning the birth of my baby,'expected' on the
10th of June.If there is anyone out there who can set me on the right
course,I would be grateful.
The question is will my birth have the successful outcome of a healthy
mother and infant [ie a labour free of medical incident].I have some reason
to worry,my last birth being protracted and difficult[but with a healthy
baby].I set the chart for June 2 '97
8:42pm NZT -12:00 Christchurch 43S32 172E38 Placidus.I also tried to glean
the date of the birth from the chart,but this might be cheating as the
question was'nt foremost in my mind at the time[although I am expending a
great deal of thought on the subject as days go by!]
Now,I spent quite a lot of time looking at this chart before I even
remembered to check whether it was radical.The ascendant is 1AQ43,so it is
not a valid chart -as it is in the first 2 degrees?However in a book I
have[An intro to Astrology-William Lilly-unfortunately tampered with by
Zadkiel]it says in this case you 'should not adventure judgement ' unless
'his corporature,complexion'etc agree with the quality of the sign
ascending.I am a Sun Aquarius with Cap rising and in general fit the Saturn
rulership-can I use this chart or shall I throw it?
A further question-I note some people on this list are including the outer
planets-would this be usual practise?I have a cosmobiological
background,but have tried to adapt myself to not including the outers when
using the traditional methods [as in Zollers course].Now I am unsure of
when to apply them.
Restraining myself to one further question-in the above mentioned books
preface, Zadkiel says although his deviations from Lillys original work are
few,he has omitted the chapters on nativities,quote'as in that part of the
science he was less perfect than in any other;the reason being that he
relied on essential dignities,which are by my experience,of little,if
any,avail.'unquote.I thought horary had as its basis,the essential
dignities,the assigning of merit points in order to judge a question.The
comment confuses me and makes me wonder how corrupted my 'Lilly' book
is.Any guidance as to what 'modernisations' are acceptable would be
appreciated.Also,any help with the baby question would be doubly
appreciated,both from the students angle and the fact it is a question dear
to my heart!Thanking you

Keli Manson Sinclair






Thread: Astrological connections
From: tees.reitsma@astronet.idn.nl (Tees Reitsma) Date: 02 Jun 97 12:38:16 +0200

Richard Nolle has been so kind to set up a new webpage which features:

1) The "International Congress Agenda"
2) The Summary of astrological Newsgroups, Mailinglists, Newsletters

URL: http://www.astropro.com/features/conxions/

Love,
Tees

---
--- Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E T2
---


Thread: Accurate Time
From: TonyLouis@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:27:25 -0400 (EDT)

There is a link to the US Naval Observatory that compares your computer's
clock with the exact time at the observatory -- a useful item for
astrologers. The URL is:

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/Timecheck.html


Tony


Thread: Financial horary
From: Joanne Greig <astrea@actrix.co.at> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:27:44 +0200


Here's an interesting horary I did last week, and would welcome any comments
on it. It is calculated for just after I joined a credit union. Currently
Jupiter has just entered my 8th natal house and I thought I should try to do
something to improve my financial situation, by saving more. The credit
union for the organization I work for, based in New York, has just opened a
liaison office in Vienna where I live. So I opened a savings account with
them, in an effort to curtail the flux of cash out of my account! Just after
I had completed the paper work, the question occurred to me: will it be
financially beneficial for me to join this credit union?

The question was asked in Vienna, May 27 1997, 1:07 pm
There are some somewhat contradictory indications in it, so any comments or
suggestions for further analysis woud be welcome. I'll outline my thinking
on the matter:

The ascendant is 14 Virgo (me). This describes me as I have a Virgo sun
sign, and am in early middle years, so Mercury is my significator. Pisces on
the 7th indicated the credit union, since it services an international
organization, Jupiter is appropriate as an ruler. The planetary hour was
ruled by Jupiter too.

Mercury is in the 9th house, perhaps indicating international flavour of the
arrangement. I am living in a foreign country, and also a different country
from the C. Union. Loosely conjunct the Part of Fortune, perhaps indicating
a relatively good position. (Mercury gets a not bad 14 points)

Jupiter is in the 6th house, showing it is a work related organization, only
for staff members.

My second house of possessions has libra on the cusp, and so its lord is
Venus in the 10th, again showing the work related connection. Taurus rules
the 9th house, also perhaps showing that I am living abroad because of my
career. (Venus gets 16 points, also not bad.)

So the picture given by the planets is quite accurate so far. Looking at the
aspects, the Moon is applying a conjunction to Jupiter, showing probably
that my application will be processed and accepted. It is also trining the
MC, perhaps showing that this will help me accomplish my goals. But the
Moon is almost exactly square to Mercury. Since the Moon is in the 5th,
could this indicate that my tendancy to overspend could create problems for
this question? Or the fact that the Union is based in another country limits
access to funds and services? The moon is applying a trine to Venus in the
10th, showing a positive influence on the finances (2nd house).

Mercury is applying a square to Jupiter as well, further indicating some
possible problems, but what, I'm not too sure about. Jupiter is trining Venus.
The financial aspects look quite good, but there is something not working
for me as the significator.

So there are some contradictory influence here, and I'm not sure how to
interpret these. Should I also look at the 8th house, to see how the assets
of the Union affect me? Saturn is in the 8th in its fall, though it's
sextiling 3 significators: Jupiter, Venus and the Moon. Jupiter is in a
critical degree. I wondered if this could indicate that some instability in
the Union, perhaps they are contemplating restructuring, or perhaps because
my employer is about to undergo reform. (Jupiter receives 9 points on
Lilly's scale, which is not too bad, but a bit weak.)

So, friends, any comments would be welcome. Since I have already taken
action on this matter, in some ways the question is academic, but I am still
personally interested in the result,

thanks, Joanne